tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post1170855984564689540..comments2024-03-28T12:23:39.665+00:00Comments on Coppola Comment: The lure of gold, the deceit of silverFrances Coppolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-14031521605894010982013-11-08T08:50:16.087+00:002013-11-08T08:50:16.087+00:00I would like to hear exactly what the hedge funds ...I would like to hear exactly what the hedge funds have said about all of this. Are there bits which can be quoted?the co-ophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05034073999481387929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-81937016141614652782013-11-08T08:49:22.848+00:002013-11-08T08:49:22.848+00:00I would like to hear exactly what the hedge funds ...I would like to hear exactly what the hedge funds have said about all of this. Are there bits which can be quoted?the co-ophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05034073999481387929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-21732836452073368572013-10-24T15:01:41.588+01:002013-10-24T15:01:41.588+01:00Crikey. I didn't think I had been kind at all....Crikey. I didn't think I had been kind at all. This post was intended as a warning to the naive bondholders of Co-Op Bank who think they have been rescued from Co-Op Group mismanagement and the future is rosy. In my view they couldn't be more wrong. Frying pans and fires spring to mind. Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-90219127524664137852013-10-24T14:58:49.255+01:002013-10-24T14:58:49.255+01:00I don't see how the Co-Op Bank can return to p...I don't see how the Co-Op Bank can return to profitability in anything resembling its current form. Given that, I don't have much faith in its long-term survival. Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-84245733697064924242013-10-24T13:12:24.714+01:002013-10-24T13:12:24.714+01:00Frances,
In stark disagreement with both you and ...Frances,<br /><br />In stark disagreement with both you and Old Nick Heavenly on this one. You have been far too kind to the financial scum that are vulture funds. They are working in cahoots to asset strip every last cent possible from the banks and as many customers as possible. Failure is their aim whilst duping as many idiots as possible into their scam. <br /><br />That these vultures are even legal is a damning indictment of regulation. That some people may think the vultures will offer a better deal than even incompetent management is a damning indictment of their stupidity. I speak as one with "skin in the game". <br /><br />The vulture scum have but one aim and that is to take as many to the cleaners as possible. The law protects them because they wrote the laws and then lobbied for them. They had no interest in the Co-op until they willing purchased it with ulterior motives. <br /><br />There is no language available to describe this vermin properly, but you have been warned.bill40noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-2533554711172163052013-10-23T10:22:48.804+01:002013-10-23T10:22:48.804+01:00Darren,
I don't disagree with your analysis o...Darren,<br /><br />I don't disagree with your analysis of the Co-Op Group's management at all. I've been severely critical of them myself in previous blog posts - see the links at the end of the post, and these two:<br /><br />http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-ethical-co-op.html<br /><br />http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/the_evidence_of_failure<br /><br />However, the point of this post is that the hedge funds' interests are not necessarily those of either the Co-Op's customers or its other stakeholders. People should be extremely wary of their intentions. They are not fundamentally interested in rescuing the bank, and they certainly won't wait patiently while it undergoes a slow and painful restructuring: their sole aim is to make money fast, and they will do so by destroying the bank if that gives them the largest and quickest return. <br /><br />Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-84229038778777686782013-10-23T09:48:46.726+01:002013-10-23T09:48:46.726+01:00Frances,
It may not involve changes to managemen...Frances, <br /><br />It may not involve changes to management but look at the rats who are rapidly fleeing. <br /><br />Whilst it is all nice and fluffy to have an "ethical", Co-operative Bank. Incompetent Management (not just the merger but the write offs of IT, Verde costs - all of which were crammed on to the Bank) does not build a successful bank and unfortunately you need a successful bank if it is going to be able to operate at all. <br /><br />Add on the lies of management (not revealing the capital deficits, issuing bonds whilst covering this up) - possibly aided by the inept regulators and you have a very duplicitous organisation. <br /><br />So the hedsge funds have come in and "won the day". Great. They know how ot make money, the bank should be stronger and they arent daft enough to forget that the "happy clappy" tag does appeal to some customers. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424595119059404521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-62037995933356630042013-10-22T20:35:20.452+01:002013-10-22T20:35:20.452+01:00Yes, the small bondholders do better. But I am not...Yes, the small bondholders do better. But I am not solely concerned with small bondholders. I am also concerned for customers. And predatory hedge fund like these are not good news for customers, or indeed for the hundreds of people employed by the Co-Op Bank. <br /><br />This deal does not involve changes to bank management. You will still have to deal with Sutherland. But he will be even less interested in you than he is now. His sole aim will be to keep the hedge funds happy, and he will do whatever it takes to achieve that even if it is not in your interests. Haven't you realised that the only reason you were offered a better deal is because the hedge funds needed your support to overturn the Co-Op's original proposal without forcing the bank into resolution? You are a means to an end, that's all. Aurelius and Silver Point are no more interested in you than Sutherland. Probably less, actually.<br /><br />I do not think this bank has a long term future, and I fear that at some point your investments really will be toast. You've been reprieved this time. Don't bank on it happening again.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-31977503962254396822013-10-22T20:16:00.031+01:002013-10-22T20:16:00.031+01:00Francis
You are one for laying on the horror.
I re...Francis<br />You are one for laying on the horror.<br />I remember you saying in another blog that the bondholders would be offered a Sutherland's deal or nothing and rejecting my suggestion that a much better deal would be available particularly once my "powerful friends arrived". Well, they did arrive and we small bondholders will have a better deal and other options instead of the dictates of the conceited Sutherland.<br />You seem determined to cast the hedge funds as the devils in carnate and will no doubt warn that we must supp with these devils from now onwards. However, it is better to deal with the devils whose behaviour you know ( live in fire, smell of sulphur and eat people before breakfast etc.) than the chaotic and incompetent directors of the Co-op Bank and Group who might do anything on a whim without proper planning and with little control the outcome was always uncertain. The improved quality of the directors will offer a path to recovery for the bank. Consider some of the previous Board members - a plasterer, a fireman, a farmer chaired by a Methodist minister. In the end the plasterer got plastered, the fireman became incandesant, the farmer ploughed his own furrow and the minister faced Armageddon, no surprise the bank failed, in reality it was just a question of when? Myself, I would rather supp with the devils from the hedge funds than the incompetents BUT there is a time to be in and there will be a time to be out for all small bondholders or small shareholders just do not hang in there too long once the bank is a going concern again.<br /><br />Very best regards<br /><br />Old NickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-36332370648944458122013-10-22T14:20:00.409+01:002013-10-22T14:20:00.409+01:00So it is conceivable that the Co-op could lose the...So it is conceivable that the Co-op could lose the only thing that realistically justifies its existence (its ethics) should it not return to profitability; that is, is it conceivable that we'd see its full scale downfall after the faceless vultures have had their share?<br /><br />Then it truly would be the end of an era, along with hope for many on the left for a workable capitalist-socialist enterprise...Maverick Expositionhttp://maverickexposition.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.com