tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post2930520123980146716..comments2024-03-29T10:48:38.142+00:00Comments on Coppola Comment: The changing nature of workFrances Coppolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-72667339191654455582012-09-09T02:08:12.841+01:002012-09-09T02:08:12.841+01:00If you are aware of the Alexander Technique then y...If you are aware of the Alexander Technique then you may find the Feldenkrais Method even more widely useful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-78099501167184615882012-08-17T14:07:54.036+01:002012-08-17T14:07:54.036+01:00I haven't suggested spending huge amounts of t...I haven't suggested spending huge amounts of time accumulating goods. Quite the opposite, actually - as readers of my other posts will know, I'm certainly not a fan of hoarding! But I acknowledge that many people DO want to accumulate wealth, and the changing work paradigm won't necessarily prevent them from doing this. On the contrary, it may make it easier if most goods can be produced for virtually nothing so don't cost very much. Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-43819836852970060122012-08-16T09:33:53.860+01:002012-08-16T09:33:53.860+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.gudduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12874119248305641489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-85236818714182992012012-08-15T23:50:08.130+01:002012-08-15T23:50:08.130+01:00I'm amazed you think project managers and busi...I'm amazed you think project managers and business analysts are "skill-lite". I was a project manager and business analyst for a long time and believe me you have to have skills. More projects fail due to poor project management and inadequate business analysis than anything else. I know banking as well as I do because of my work as a business analyst. In order to define systems requirements you have to understand the business better than those actually doing it. Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-78842946059388238052012-08-15T03:13:03.323+01:002012-08-15T03:13:03.323+01:00Spending huge amounts of time accumulating goods h...Spending huge amounts of time accumulating goods hardly seems to square with your assertion about the moral value of human beings being unconnected to market valuation of their activity. The growing productivity of an advanced economy opens up the possibility of changing our priorities away from wealth accumulation towards human values.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00769952853595228563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-86636806938623025832012-08-11T09:47:14.748+01:002012-08-11T09:47:14.748+01:00I wasn't suggesting greater leisure, actually,...I wasn't suggesting greater leisure, actually, or less time making money, necessarily. I was suggesting less time spent on meeting basic survival needs, leaving more time for more rewarding forms of work. In parallel with this, I also think there are changing patterns of work - from unskilled jobs aimed at making "stuff" towards skilled jobs aimed at benefiting society in a multitude of ways but especially helping others.<br /><br />If we are to move towards a more highly-skilled work paradigm, the growing tendency of young people to delay entry to the workforce in order to gain skills and qualifications may be a good thing, even though it is currently forced to some extent by unemployment. At the other end, the need for skills and experience (and less need for physical fitness) should encourage companies to retain older experienced staff, rather than laying them off to make way for younger inexperienced people. Perhaps we will start to see the return of true apprenticeship - older, experienced people training their eventual replacements.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-86714430606925036542012-08-11T08:21:44.437+01:002012-08-11T08:21:44.437+01:00I agree that the future should be one of greater l...I agree that the future should be one of greater leisure in the sense of less or no time spent on money making. It follows from economic theory and has been a theme of left wing /anarchist radical politics since Godwin in 1793.<br /><br />But in the actual political system all the policy of states is towards forcing everyone to work and cutting welfare benefits and public services. Governments are stuck in a capitalist mind set where the victorian work house is a good idea as private profit is king and work for pay has some mythical moral function unconnected from productivity. The main utility of technology for human freedom lies in greater leisure but I am sceptical that without a transformation in philosophical world view and some socialist revolution that the old mind set of victorian values will keep everyone working at useless occupation.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00769952853595228563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-47149545418726443382012-08-10T17:59:29.428+01:002012-08-10T17:59:29.428+01:00Ms. Coppola:
In terms of the discussion of what t...Ms. Coppola:<br /><br />In terms of the discussion of what the future holds, I would recommend Peter Frase's "Four Futures" feature in Jacobin magazine: <br /><br />http://jacobinmag.com/winter-2012/four-futures/<br /><br />I would agree with your prediction that we are moving towards a general glut, but the political and legal structures defining the ownership of these means of production will greatly influence whether the majority of people in the future will actually be able to access these good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-75933111089901914452012-08-10T16:33:03.407+01:002012-08-10T16:33:03.407+01:00We are already well advanced towards the post-scar...We are already well advanced towards the post-scarcity world. As you note, the real "commodity" is time not labour. If productivity gains had been remitted in time over the last 60 years, we'd now be working a 15-hour week (as envisaged by Keynes). Instead, time has been hoarded by the creation of supernumerary roles and by the manner of technology deployment.<br /><br />Blue-collar roles have disappeared through automation while white-collar roles have expanded. This is sold as "higher skill", and "moving up the food chain", but the reality is that many of these roles are just middle-class job creation, e.g. roles in marketing, HR, training, accountancy etc. Even apparently skilled disciplines such as IT are largely populated by skill-lite roles such as project managers, business analysts and generalist managers.<br /><br />The growth in business regulation management (i.e. "red tape") is presented as a state (or EU) burden, but most of it is self-imposed. There's no law that says you need a corporate social responsibility manager, or that you should employ the MD's daughter to tweet marketing messages all day. The impact of H&S is negligible when compared to the impact of marketing (which at an aggregate level is a zero-sum game and thus adds nothing to GDP - NB: that's marketing, not sales).<br /><br />China is already importing German robot technology to automate its production lines as rising wages erode their labour cost edge. Offshoring in turn to Vietnam will not be enough. Equally, the Chinese investment in education (look at the number of their students in UK universities) means they will soon be taking those design, technology and high-end service roles that we comforted ourselves we'd keep as manual jobs disappeared.<br /><br />The last 30 years of technology can be read as an unequal fight over declining time. Technology has driven the substitution of manual and low-skill roles, but it has also given rise to activities that have offset the potential substitution of white-collar roles. Thus emails are more effective than paper memos, but this has led to everyone writing more with no overall reduction in labour time. The added speed of research that the Web has brought has been offset by time spent on "capricious browsing". The clamour for social media's use within business has long looked like a solution in search of a problem. <br /><br />Portfolio careers, flexible working, job-shares and the like are middle-class privileges, along with the use of personal service companies to avoid tax (much more widespread than the media allow), and can be seen as the emerging symptoms of a demand for a reduction in the working week. The problem is that such a benefit cannot be made available to the unemployed or the under-employed. The case for a guaranteed basic income is obvious, in part because this would allow a fairer re-division of work.FromArseToElbowhttp://fromarsetoelbow.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-34979579605816535542012-08-10T12:17:36.577+01:002012-08-10T12:17:36.577+01:00One of the major concerns I have is the unwillingn...One of the major concerns I have is the unwillingness of many men to embrace what they consider "women's work". There is no logical or biological reason why service-based work should be principally done by women, or why "men's work" should involve "making stuff" - or, in the past, "growing stuff" or, even earlier, "hunting stuff". It is simply that cultural values and traditions make it hard for people to adapt: men are understandably protective about their traditional work, and women are equally protective about what they see as suitable work for "real men". But there is real danger that these attitudes will force redefinition of the family roles of men and women. In a world in which many men are both unskilled in the types of work available and unwilling to do that work anyway, the burden of providing for families increasingly falls on women, the responsiblity for caring for children falls to professional providers and men are in danger of becoming superfluous. I think we are already seeing this trend and it is not one I like.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-586088481387975602012-08-09T15:53:09.782+01:002012-08-09T15:53:09.782+01:00Frances - Sorry for delay. You really must read &#...Frances - Sorry for delay. You really must read 'Inequaliy, the Third World and economic delusion' by the late Lord Bauer. Chapter 1 'The grail of equality' makes the point that people able to, for example, repair their own cars (harder now-the chapter was written in 1980) are misrepresented in conventional income comparisons, as the value of the goods they can provide themselves goes totally unnoticed? The one worry I have is possibly fom reading too much science fiction, and based on a proverb:<br /><br />'The devil finds work for idle hands'<br /><br />In the fictional world of many a dystopian vision (I use as an example 2000AD by John Wagner) automation has replaced most jobs and unemployment is over 90%, with tongue in cheek remarks like companies organising trips to Alien worlds for people to work as serfs which are heavily oversubscribed, and crime rampant to the extent that the 'police force' are empowered to act as judge,jury and executioner.<br /><br />In the real world, we can see what the decline of certain industries that were crucial to communities such as mining and steel, caused , when lost, massive dislocation and social disruption - I agree that you recognise the positive aspects of this trend, especially from women's perspectives, but it would be remiss not to point out the downsidesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-15283225901073363622012-08-07T00:25:33.182+01:002012-08-07T00:25:33.182+01:00That's one way to look at it - it's true t...That's one way to look at it - it's true the punter is buying both the time and the right to walk away. But really the higher the payscale, the higher the pretended buy-in on both sides. Check out 'True Girlfriend Experience' sometime.cityeyriehttp://twitter.com/cityeyrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-7542765654911560082012-08-06T23:05:57.973+01:002012-08-06T23:05:57.973+01:00Hmm. It's really just a question of how much o...Hmm. It's really just a question of how much of her time he is buying. With prostitution it's an hour or so. With marriage in Jane Austen's time it was a lifetime. But the offering was basically the same.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-15744236702575493972012-08-06T22:53:13.208+01:002012-08-06T22:53:13.208+01:00Exactly, tho Tim Worstall was only repeating what ...Exactly, tho Tim Worstall was only repeating what is well understood by prostitutes themselves. That was the one weak point in the post. Men basically pay not to have any complications, whatever the 'level' of the sex trade. But this is quibbling, really, over a detail and not addressing the fundamental point.cityeyriehttp://twitter.com/cityeyrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-76000602579352604662012-08-06T22:44:27.957+01:002012-08-06T22:44:27.957+01:00"The "oldest profession", at its hi..."The "oldest profession", at its higher levels, recognises that what is being sold is not sex but time and attention."<br /><br />Maybe I can lower the tone a little, but what is actually being sold is that the woman goes away after sex (I think it was Tim Worstall who pointed this out originally).Christie Malryhttp://www.fcablog.org.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-6773597721954522692012-08-06T22:40:19.941+01:002012-08-06T22:40:19.941+01:00Excellent post. The link between work and money is...Excellent post. The link between work and money is becoming ever more tenuous, and the sooner we stop with all this S&M between the left and right over inculcating a 'work ethic' the better. The question is not 'how many people are going to use a guaranteed minimum income to skive?' but 'how many people are currently doing things which are hugely useful to everyone without any income from it?' <br /><br />Guaranteed jobs are just a recipe for government corruption, mis-allocation of resources and other less serious cock-ups. One need look no further than the shameful treatment of people who genuinely want help into paid work in the form of re-training or up-dating, who these days run a treadmill of incessant CV tweaking or irrelevant 'work experience' which amounts to a subsidy to whichever business takes them on. And that's to say nothing of the various form-fiddling scandals by the private providers of these schemes. Who's really skiving? Don't get me started...<br /><br />Having been here during the 1980s, even while Thatcher was driving a huge wedge between the employed and unemployed with Right to Buy and the attack on the unions, there was a far less interventionist regime for people on the dole. I saw a lot of people use that time both to support each other and to create new businesses and even whole new occupations. <br /><br />In many ways the UK is still living off the great burst of creativity during the 1960s-early 1990s - the era of high taxes and a relatively easy dole regime, as evidenced by Danny Boyle's olympic opening. Which by the way, to me seemed like nothing so much as a requiem for traditional notions of "work".<br /><br />The Liberal Party was proposing a citizen's income back in 1978 - whatever happened to that?cityeyriehttp://twitter.com/cityeyrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-54368343695485615592012-08-06T16:45:09.679+01:002012-08-06T16:45:09.679+01:00I'm not sure there is, or was ever, a link bet...I'm not sure there is, or was ever, a link between work and pay. Or bonuses. Or pensions. Or share option schemes. <br /><br />How do we pay for our imports of food, consumer goods, energy, and transport equipment?devonseaglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02637463423116171963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-65478439034754082452012-08-06T15:59:48.562+01:002012-08-06T15:59:48.562+01:00No, I'm certainly not arguing that the industr...No, I'm certainly not arguing that the industrial base is unimportant. Quite the opposite, actually - the "service" world that I envisage is only possible if it is built upon a sound, though highly automated, production sector. That's why I didn't agree with Izabella about free goods - I don't think that's either achievable (with production in private hands) or desirable.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-72767703879574820762012-08-06T15:29:10.726+01:002012-08-06T15:29:10.726+01:00Possibly I misread your blog. I guess the key thin...Possibly I misread your blog. I guess the key thing is the distinction between manufacturing as a key driver of economic activity and manufacturing as a major employer. <br /><br />Obviously automation will lead to a decline in people directly employed in manufacturing and the increase in service jobs is obviously no bad thing. <br /><br />However this is not the same as ignoring our industrial base which remains vital to our national economy and is the reason why people in the service industry can enjoy a (globally) high standard of living [closer to that of German service workers than their equivalents in Tanzania!]paulgriffithsuknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-45348301984001314962012-08-06T15:24:49.329+01:002012-08-06T15:24:49.329+01:00A very interesting and perceptive piece, Frances. ...A very interesting and perceptive piece, Frances. As someone with a 'portfolio' career, I'm well aware that some of what I do - lecturing - is well paid - other work often unpaid. You've nailed it - the link is broken between work and pay. There is still a lag until everyone realises that. I like your solution too!tonyglover11noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-666212254087222682012-08-06T14:08:16.508+01:002012-08-06T14:08:16.508+01:00Oh, and I work in a "service" industry. ...Oh, and I work in a "service" industry. My clients are not wealthy people - by and large they are people of average income. Person-to-person services are certainly not exclusively sold to rich people in the South East of England.Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-25487555653581306332012-08-06T14:05:01.761+01:002012-08-06T14:05:01.761+01:00Maintaining national infrastructure is essential a...Maintaining national infrastructure is essential and I am implicitly assuming that government continues to do that. And obviously that will employ people, although again I think technological improvements will mean that far fewer people will be needed in the future. <br /><br />Why do you think that a depopulated, automated manufacturing sector means no international trade? I didn't assume that. On the contrary, automation and depopulation should make it possible for us to compete on better terms with countries with lower unit labour costs, because our costs of production will be far lower: high levels of automation in Germany are a key driver of its export-led economy. So we may actually find that our export position improves. But there won't be nearly so many people employed in manufacturing. <br /><br />I used "personal services" in its broadest sense. You obviously missed my comments about adult education, and about personalisation in the retail sector - including artisan crafts. <br /><br />What is your emotional objection to "work" meaning, for most people, small business and service?Frances Coppolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09399390283774592713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-7835579069937335892012-08-06T13:41:28.501+01:002012-08-06T13:41:28.501+01:00"Those who bewail the loss of our industrial ..."Those who bewail the loss of our industrial base, sniff at service industries and think that only "making stuff" is proper work, are living in the past"<br /><br />Perhaps I'm taking this out of context and extrapolating a bit far but the implication is that we can have an economy where we all sell aromatherapy oils and massages to each other. However this would seem to completely overlooks all the externalities of the British economy. Surely we need trade to pay out way in the world (e.g. get access to the raw materials, technology and energy we need to maintain our living standards). <br /><br />Globally you find that service jobs in the third world (where there are a lack of other jobs and limited high value trade) pay barely get people above the poverty line. In the UK people can earn good money providing services to the local economy - particularly by providing services to wealthy people in the South East of England. however even in the UK its very questionable even now how much this applies to the whole of the UK. I fear without a emphasis on infrastructure projects and supporting exporter businesses, a policy focused on small businesses and encouraging the service industry would simply be the road to serfdom.<br /><br />Fundamentally its good that people have skills and are entrepreneurial but (as far as I can tell) the wealth of such people is VERY dependent on having government that maintains the national infrastructure and corporations able to sell goods and services internationally.paulgriffithsuknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8764541874043694159.post-87637045998873015962012-08-05T20:07:01.960+01:002012-08-05T20:07:01.960+01:00Agreed. 'Respect for Humanity' should mean...Agreed. 'Respect for Humanity' should mean that our systems and processes serve US, not the other way around. During my tenure at Toyota there were lots of examples where processes reductions led to manpower surplus and this surplus was then turned into additional Kaizen force.<br />Very powerful mechanism to drive further change yet something that seems very counterintuitive to North American business.<a href="http://www.1stcourses.com" rel="nofollow">lean manufacturing training</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133765657965222588noreply@blogger.com